Q1-

Early Gothic novels and art were often produced by Protestants. 
They feature a demonised, yet alluring, Catholicism of wicked monks and nuns. 
In what ways is current Goth culture ambiguous in its perspectives on religion? 
How might ARA be viewed as an ambiguous event?

Matt:  

Goth culture is particularly ambiguous from a religious perspective, because it's a spiritually diverse culture. 
Those outside (religious or not) generally assume that it revolves around wickedness, and a love of all things depraved. 
This assumption is not necessarily undermined by the extreme fashion and lyrical/filmic expressions found in the culture. 
Yet from the inside the culture is no worse than any other.

My observations lead me to believe that the predominant belief system present in Goth culture is that of paganism, 
with atheism, humanism and agnosticism closely behind. Least present are the Eastern religions, 
although elements such as reincarnation, meditation and karma seem to be the most appealing aspects. 
Somewhere in the middle there is Christianity (protestant or catholic) and of course Satanism. 
There are some who are more dedicated to their belief systems than others and some who accept a label more readily than others. 
However, contrary to popular belief, Goth is not a culture of Satanists.

To look at the media representation of Goth culture, most films are presented from a classic good vs. evil point of view, 
with use of Christian imagery and liturgy representing 'good', while at the same time making the 'evil' component cool. 
Conversely, the music industry seems to take an actively anti-Christian/anti-religion stand, 
with little room given for a Christian counterpoint. 
With such a melting pot of ideologies I think it's fair to say the scene is ambiguous.
ARA may be perceived as ambiguous, because it's held in a working church building, 
but invites everyone, even those who may be quite anti-Christian. 
It's run by Christians, but it's predominantly non-Christians that come to the event 
(who sometimes are unsure whether they'll get a Bible-bashing, which they don't!) 
When people attend, I hope they see that we remove some of that ambiguity through our use of the space, 
through our play lists and most importantly, through the way we conduct ourselves.

Kolyn:  

 

I'd suggest that current Goth culture isn't ambiguous in its perspectives on religion – 
it's ambiguous in its perspectives on Christianity (or at least what it understands as Christianity). 
It often reacts against, yet actively embraces a great deal of the elements found within it. 
The belief in God, Christ, etc can be ridiculed or attacked, 
yet things like old churches, graveyards, crosses and religious language are openly accepted.

2. Are the organisers of ARA affiliated to a particular Christian denomination? 
In what ways does the event fulfil your denomination/s particular Christian aims?

Kolyn: The organisers of ARA are Christians who currently attend different expressions of 'church'. I go to Sanctus 1, which describes itself as 'an emerging church based in the centre of Manchester engaged in a journey of creative exploration into faith, worship, culture and friendship'. Though it is an Anglican initiative, I would not say that I am affiliated to the Church of England. In fact I started going to Sanctus 1 because of a growing disillusionment with mainstream church. I guess Sanctus 1 is aiming to be a relevant, contemporary, accessible expression of 'church' for people who live or work in the centre of Manchester. Though not aiming to be a 'church' as such, Ara does aim to be a relevant, contemporary, accessible event for the Gothic community which is run on Christian principles and by Christian individuals. Sanctus 1 may well challenge people's preconceptions of what 'church' is, and ARA may well challenge people's preconceptions of what Christians are like. I also think that both Sanctus 1 and Ara place importance on friendship, community and welcome.

Matt: I go to Manchester Vineyard Christian Fellowship (in Holy Trinity School, Hulme, which is Evangelical). However, our backgrounds and views are similar and of an Evangelical leaning.

For us all, ARA is something we enjoy simply as a gothic/metal club-style event with a creative edge. However, another big driving force is to bring the message of Christ to sub-cultures generally rejected by the traditional expressions of church. As part of these sub-cultures, we wanted to let others know that Christ doesn't reject them, even though those in the 'church' may do so. We wanted to show by example what it is to be a Christian (and that we aren't devoid of fashion sense, humour or a brain!) We wanted to be there for people to ask us questions, for them to understand more about us and our beliefs and for us to understand their viewpoints. Also, we wanted to provide a place that other like-minded Christians would feel comfortable coming to.

I don't see this as fulfilling denominational aims, but rather those of Christ himself, who taught as a rabbi, but also dined with those rejected by society. His disciples came from a wide variety of backgrounds and he desired to be in the centre of his community, not stuck in a temple all day. He led by example as well as by teaching in a way that his community could understand. For us, the Goth and Metal cultures are our community – we hope that by running ARA, not only are we using our God-given skills in creative ways, but that we are ministering to our community and in doing so, are spreading His message in a non-confrontational way. Oh, and that we put on a jolly good evening in the process!

3. Have you experienced negative responses to ARA
 a) from within your own church b) from other Goths? Please give details.

Matt: Vineyard is a relatively large church with a lot of its own activities going on. Because of this, initiatives that are run by various individuals can sometimes be overlooked rather than overtly criticised. If I bring up ARA to people then they are generally interested and supportive, but they are not proactive in their support. The leaders of our house group did occasionally express concern about what we were doing, but this is probably to do with a common misconception of Goth culture. It's inevitable that we will come across negative sentiments. What we do is, from a Christian perspective, very unusual and on the edge of the acceptable. Cultures like Goth are still viewed with misunderstanding. I think this comes with a media view of the culture, mixed with extreme knee-jerk reactions to provocative performers and an inbuilt scepticism of anything not 'normal'. Add to this a reluctance to investigate further and the misconception sticks. Basically, take a base of Alice Cooper, add Iron Maidens' Number of the Beast, mix in biker gang violence, songs about death, backtracking, heavy metal hedonism, vampyric horror and top it off with Marilyn Manson and you end up with a generic Christian perspective (I'm sure you're aware of this already).

My own parents (who have led churches for many years and are currently teaching church leaders across the globe) have had to readdress their perspectives as a result of ARA. They find that we can actually be an intellectual bunch, perfectly pleasant to converse with and that despite the strange and provocative clothing, people conduct themselves with a reasonable amount of decorum. There are a number of Christians who see through the face paint and know that Goths are human after all.

From the people at whom ARA is aimed, we have mixed reactions, although mostly positive. Some feel it's "just not right" to do what we do in a church. We expected and respect this viewpoint – it is a particularly acute counterpoint to have a club-like event in a church. Some don't want the hassle of having to bring their own drinks or to smoke outside or to not take drugs. Some think we will try to brainwash them. Most, however, have tasted the fruit and seen that it is good! They respect our views and the fact that we don't force them on others (although we'll happily chat about them and have had many interesting conversations on some tough topics).

Kolyn: There have been no negative responses from Sanctus 1. When ARA first started, there were some problems with some members of the congregation at Sacred Trinity. Though the then vicar had given his permission for ARA to take place, he had not told the congregation anything about it and one of them came across something on the internet about it. They were understandably concerned that the church was being misused, but the matter was eventually resolved when Matt and I had the opportunity to sit down and speak to them. The current vicar is very supportive and has come along to several ARA nights.

On the whole, there seem to have been mainly positive responses to ARA from Goths, though inevitably it is not going to appeal to everyone. Someone has commented that they didn't like it because we were too nice! Perhaps the biggest negative response we have had was when we had to ask someone to leave because they were extremely drunk and their behaviour was making other people feel uncomfortable. Though they left relatively quietly, one of their friends thought that we were being completely out of order and basically tried to pick a fight with one of us – "Call yourselves Christians?" was one of their comments. More friends arrived and eventually a group of them left and as far as I am aware, they have never come to another ARA.

4. Some Christians condemn Goth culture (the Yorkshire vicar who opposes the Whitby event, for example).
Others run websites with the express design of converting Goths to Evangelical Christianity. 
What are your views on both these tactics?

Matt: I view both responses with sympathy, though not necessarily with agreement. I would suggest that those who reject/oppose Goth culture do so out of a lack of understanding or interest (i.e. they are told that it must be opposed and don't challenge the opinion). They hold to the view that it's all bad and that those involved must be disturbed or lacking proper judgement in some way (either that or just they're being rebellious and will grow out of it). I'm sure the vicar you refer to is not opposing the event out of sheer spite, but out of a belief that something bad is going on that needs to be stopped. I find this view frustrating, because it is largely incorrect and I would rather the vicar do something positive about the situation rather than lodging complaint (e.g. visit the event, talk to the Goths and talk to the townsfolk). Surely, if everyone is so bad, the vicar should be there pushing the Gospel.

On the flip side, there are those who actively try to convert. One of the core tenets of the faith is the 'great commission' – to disseminate the Gospel of Christ across the world. Part of the tactics that have developed over the centuries is to focus on a particular group of people with whom one has an affinity (although this is only one method). I personally don't like being stopped in the street by anyone, so don't feel comfortable doing this myself (street evangelism being a common method of fulfilling the great commission) – I would rather discuss my faith with people I relate to when they're ready to hear it. I'm sure that the websites you refer to are based on similar reasons. Websites are a non-invasive method of presenting the Gospel in a way that will be understood by the target group – if you want to read it then you can, but no one is making you. Some Christians relate to Goths and wish to explain the Bible in ways that a Goth would understand or by using examples that they will relate to.

I don't see a problem with this. I know that in our politically correct world it's appropriate to believe what you want as long as you don't inflict it on others. But I just can't go with that – I won't force my beliefs on anyone, but I won't shy away from discussing them, because it's what Christ asked me to do (the great commission).

Kolyn: I have problems with both these tactics. As far as I understand, Jesus did not condemn people even when those around Him felt that it was justified – e.g. When a woman was about to be stoned, Jesus said that the person who had never done anything wrong should throw the first stone, and all those who were so ready to condemn her had to leave. If you condemn an entire culture then you are at best going to alienate yourself from them and so harm opportunities to form positive relationships with them. I guess I can understand how some Christians can be scared off by some of the imagery, lyrics, etc that are found in Goth culture – there are some that I don't personally like as a Christian – but to judge a book by its cover does not seem terribly constructive to me. I think it also goes to strengthen the preconceptions that Goths might have about Christians.

I'm uncomfortable with the other tactic (based on the websites that I've seen) because they tend to stray into 'Bible-bashing' territory. They mostly seem to be American and reflect a certain form of Christianity, one that I don't go along with wholeheartedly. Also, if someone I had never met decided that they wanted to be my friend so appeared out of the blue and kept telling me what a great friend they'd make, I'd find it very odd to say the least. If however we happened to meet up through some mutual interest and gradually got to know each other, I might discover that the person would actually make a good friend. I think the same applies to evangelism. I think it's about building relationships with people rather than preaching at people from a soap box.

5. Goths often appear defensive in the face of a perceived opposition from Christianity. 
How would you counter such suspicions?

Matt: I find this question difficult to answer, because I would say that the perceived opposition from Christianity is real and Goths are right to be defensive. However, this opposition comes from Christians, not Christianity. One of my biggest bugbears is that too often Christianity is about religion and not faith. It's about political ambition, celebrity status or power and control. Acts taken in the name of Christianity overshadow the faith which underpins it (from the Crusades to the War on Terror). Christ taught a message of love and acceptance, which goes against these acts.

What I would say, though, is that not all Christians are close-minded. Some don't understand the Goth culture, but will take time to learn. Others are already 'enlightened' and accept that we are all unique creations and Goth is just a personal expression of who we are (just as Hip-Hop or Trendy are to others).

If a person doesn't know Christ as their Lord, then it really doesn't matter what they look like or believe – they still need a personal relationship with Christ in order to be saved from eternal damnation. This is opposition by virtue of being on different sides of a fence, not from a desire to be confrontational – and it is something that applies to everyone, not just Goths.

Kolyn: First of all, I can really appreciate why they might be defensive because I suspect that their experience of Christianity is probably not a very positive one e.g. the vicar in Whitby, Christians handing out leaflets outside a Marilyn Manson concert, Songs of Praise, etc.) However, just as I think it's wrong for Christians to judge Goth culture based on preconceptions, ignorance and bias, I also think it's wrong for Goths to judge Christianity in the same way. I've met many people – both Goths and Christians – who have been very surprised when I told them that I was a Christian just because of the way that I look and the things I'm interested in. This is one very simple way that I hope I counter suspicions on both sides. Running a Goth event inside a church building is another way – lots of people that have come to ARA can't quite get their heads round it! Somebody once challenged me as to how I could play 'Closer' by Nine Inch Nails as a Christian inside a church. I replied to them at some length explaining how I personally found that the song touched me spiritually, both through its lyrics and its intensity. I didn't hear back from them so I don't know what they thought of my response!



6. One strand in Goth culture has a strong penchant for the past (particularly the 19th Century 'medieval'), 
expressed in dress, iconography and aesthetic tastes. 
From the 1860's, the High Anglican Oxford Movement responded to a crisis in Christianity by its own form of Gothic revival. 
This was accused of aestheticism and nostalgia by its detractors. 
Has the ARA event been perceived in a comparable way?

Matt: I'm not sure many would know about the movement you refer to and it's not a specific accusation we've ever had (I've had to look it up on the internet myself, my theological background being Evangelical rather than Anglican or Catholic). However, what I think you're aiming at is the fact that the event panders more to the 19th century gothic aesthetic, rather than a modern perspective, which comes across through the building, the music and some of the movies shown (early 20th century horror being a favourite theme). In this respect, I think we alienate certain members of the gothic culture (or similar cultures) – predominantly the younger end of the gothic populous, who prefer a more modern club-setting (although an older audience has always been our target).

Another unfortunate side effect of the gothic overtones of the event is that it tends to alienate non-Goth cultures. We are known for playing a range of music – Goth was (and is) only a part of the playlists. However, we don't tend to get many metallers or punks at ARA, which is a shame. This is one of the reasons why we've been thinking about a second event, for a different audience (may be even in a different location).

Kolyn: I can't claim to know anything about the High Anglican Oxford Movement, but I personally don't see anything inherently negative about aestheticism or nostalgia, as long as they are held in balance. Modern Goth culture itself is often accused of being both of these things because of its roots in post-punk/eighties trends and incorporation of imagery, etc from past centuries. Even if I wanted to, it would be virtually impossible not to play bands like The Cult, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, The Mission, or The Chameleons at Ara. It could therefore be argued that I'm being nostalgic about what I play because the music resonates with a certain time in my life. However, for something to become considered as a 'classic', it tends to need to prove that it can stand the test of time. However, this is hopefully balanced by playing contemporary music, including darkwave, EBM, and current Goth bands. ARA doesn't hide from aestheticism or nostalgia but hopefully uses them positively and constructively. For example, art and imagery are significant elements and the fact that the event takes place in a 17th century church is seen as a unique benefit. Those who might accuse ARA of aestheticism and nostalgia in a negative way probably make their point by simply not coming to the event.

7. I noticed your selective play-list. 
Which particular tracks/lyrics/bands have you excluded from it and why?

Matt: Music is an important feature of ARA and given our Christian standpoint, it's something that we are probably more selective about than other similar clubs. That isn't to say that we believe we are superior in any way, just different.

Being the resident DJs, Kolyn and I are the first layer of filtering, with our stylistic choices. Kolyn tends to focus more on Goth, punk and 80s alternative, where I focus on rock and metal. An area unfamiliar to both of us (and therefore attempted by both) is electronica and specifically EBM. Within these styles, we each apply our own spiritual filters – the primary aim of which is to exclude anything obviously blasphemous or derisive of Christ. Secondly, we try not to play tracks with excessive amounts of swearing or explicitly sexual content. Finally, we would endeavour to exclude tracks that actively promote a spiritual course away from Christ (which may include eastern religions, paganism, a focus on demonic influences, etc.)

On the inclusive side, we try to play tracks that could be deemed 'Christian', by virtue of the beliefs of band members, or of the lyrical content. Also, we try to play music that isn't generally heard in other clubs (while still having to submit to requests and give people what they want). One of the aims of ARA is to challenge people to think more deeply about life than they might otherwise and to introduce new music (wherever it comes from). We try not to be heavy-handed in this and consciously try not to 'Bible-bash', without shying away from music that we like just because it's from a Christian source. Also, the variety challenges people to accept other types of music (from 70s to ebm to extreme metal)!

As you can probably guess, the line dividing the acceptable from the unacceptable is considerably blurred (particularly with bands like NIN or genres like Black Metal). We don't always get it right, but in the main are pleased by the diversity we bring.

Kolyn: If you're a DJ then you're inevitably going to make a lot of subjective choices regarding what to play – whether it's Goth, House, Pop, whatever. I hope that we manage to cover a pretty broad spectrum of music whilst still keeping under a broad Gothic umbrella. I personally don't mind tracks that have a dig at Christianity as long as I think it's in an interesting, constructive or even amusing way. For example, I've played 'Personal Jesus' by Depeche Mode, 'New Christian Music' by Alien Sex Fiend, 'The Lord's Prayer' by Siouxsie and the Banshees, and 'Hey Poor, Jesus is Here' by Front 242. I'm sure that there will be Christians that would think that it's wrong for me to play stuff like that but I seem to find it pretty easy to upset Christians one way or another! Perhaps one of the most positive things about playing tracks like these is that it challenges people, makes them ask questions and creates dialogue. It may also simply show that not all Christians are mad fundamentalists who only listen to Cliff Richard and that some even have a sense of humour! On the other hand, I suppose I feel a certain responsibility not to play stuff that might send out the wrong message or offend other people even if it doesn't offend me. An example might be 'Day I Met God' by Adam and the Ants. They're my all-time favourite band, I think it's an excellent song and I personally find it very challenging, but the lyrics are very 'blasphemous' if taken at face value so I'll probably never play it. I don't think I've ever had a request for a track that I wouldn't play for moral or religious reasons. I'm sure there are bands and tracks that I wouldn't play but I think they tend to be more prevalent in the black metal end of stuff, which isn't my cup of tea anyway.

8. You were playing 'Kelly's Heroes', 'Where Eagles Dare' & other war films in the club-
what motivates your choice of films?

Matt: I think I can give you a fairly quick answer at last ;)

A while ago we decided to theme each evening, mainly to provide Kolyn and me with a focus for track and film selection. The May ARA had a War'n'Peace theme (which is also why there was a small display of war related items in the glass room). Unfortunately, we can only disseminate the theme via email adverts, so not everyone gets what we're doing, but we try. Sometimes the theme is more overt, such as the Masquerade Ball we held last year. Overall though, we pick films we think will appeal – this ranges from traditional gothic (like Interview With A Vampire) to fantasy and sci-fi (such as Aliens), but also includes other choices to suit the moment (e.g. for Easter we showed Mel Gibson's The Passion Of The Christ, but also Monty Pythons' Life Of Brian!).

9. The event takes place in a sacred space. 
Goth is a heavily ritualised subculture with its own cultural sense of the 'sacred'. 
Which practices of Goths at the event could be viewed as potentially sacred?

Matt: Sacred to whom – the Goths or us? I'll assume sacred from a Christian perspective.

ARA is surprisingly sacred given its club-nature. To form a point of comparison, most church services have a number of key elements regardless of denomination. These include music (and sometimes dancing and/or other physical forms of expression), dissemination of the Word of God (through preaching, reading of the Bible, etc.), practical elements of running a church (such as notices or collecting tithes) and fellowship.

To relate this back to ARA, we have the music and dancing (sometimes to very spiritual tracks), the dissemination of the Word of God (not quite on the scale of preaching, but in conversations we have and in some of the lyrical content of songs, or through the books, art and films we display). We also have the practical elements, such as collecting entrance fees and promoting related events (although this generally takes place online) and we definitely have the fellowship. All in all, one could argue that ARA is a form of church, albeit a very unusual one.

What I personally find very interesting is seeing the way people dance. I think it can reflect a lot about a person and what they're feeling – dancing styles can be as individual as fingerprints. There are people who at certain points will outstretch their arms and raise their head to the sky – a classic pose of supplication and/or veneration. Others clench their fists as if wrestling with something or grabbing onto something and holding it tightly. Others dance aimlessly or still others anchor themselves to the spot – what are people thinking in these times? I think all the organisers have some very spiritual moments on the ARA dancefloor, when we can really express our feelings to God (not always possible in regular church settings).

Finally, we chose the title 'ARA' for its Latin meaning, which is 'altar/refuge'. We cloak the event in spirituality without trying to push it down people's throats – it's held in a church, there are crosses all around and even a proper altar! An altar is a place of worship, of forgiveness and of sacrifice. It's also a sanctuary and refuge – traditionally the physical location most closely associated with the presence of God. We hope that this comes across in some way to the people coming through our doors. We know they sacrifice certain things to come to us, such as money, time, effort and for some, having to go outside to smoke, not allowing drugs and for others a strong feeling of respect for the environment that causes a behavioural change (such as trying not to swear). However, we hope that people feel they can connect with each other and with us (and maybe even with God!), that they feel safe and secure and look forward to ARA as a refuge from the hubbub of daily life or a place to find answers to some difficult questions.

Kolyn: I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'sacred'. The dictionary gives slightly different definitions of the word. The first is 'devoted or held especially acceptable to a deity'. If I go by this definition, I'm not sure what practices, if any, of Goths at ARA would be considered sacred. I certainly think that it's got a sense of the sacred for those of us who organise it, as we're not simply trying to run 'just another club' for Goths. ARA was born out of and is an expression of our Christian faith, and we hope that it is something that somehow points beyond itself to God – through the venue, the way its run, the atmosphere, the films and books, and the music. In general, those who come to ARA have a sense that the church is a sacred space, whatever their personal spirituality might be e.g. the person concerned about 'Closer' by NIN being played, someone commenting that they felt they couldn't swear inside the building, another saying that they'd normally do drugs when they went out but didn't feel it was appropriate at ARA, people respecting the house rules which include not smoking inside (which I'd suggest is pretty unusual for a club).

Another definition is 'dedicated or reserved or appropriated to some person or purpose'. If I go by this definition, then it is easier to view certain practices as potentially 'sacred'. One obvious thing would be the way that people dress. Many put considerable effort into the way that they look, which may be significantly different to their everyday appearance. I realise that is not exclusive to ARA and takes place at all sorts of Goth events, but I'm encouraged by the fact that people feel safe enough at ARA to express themselves without being judged, whether that's men wearing skirts, people dressing as knights, or others in classic 'fetish' attire. Another possibility would be the way that quite a number of people have made the effort to produce CD's with music on that they offer to be included as part of ARA. Some also offer to help with various parts of the event, such as changing the films, helping out on the entry desk or clearing up at the end.

10. Goth has a strongly erotic, often fetishistic, element. 
Christianity (particularly Pauline strands) has been accused of promoting sexual repression,
 in order to 'divert' erotic energy in spiritual directions. What are your views on this potential disparity?

Matt: It is impossible to separate gothic from the erotic – they don't have to coexist to be defined, but are often seen together. Sex and eroticism are topics that people like to talk about (and can generally talk at length). As such, I'll try to keep this brief!

God created us as sexual beings, starting out naked with the intension to remain so (until the Tree of Knowledge incident). The Bible does not shy away from sexual subjects. It fervently promotes the union of one man and one woman (and forbids other styles of union), and also provides an erotic book on the subject – the Song of Solomon.

I think there is a common perception within Christian circles that while sex isn't bad, it's mainly for procreating. Christians are fastidious about no sex before marriage (with which I agree, but this is often taken too far, with couples only enjoying chaste kissing and hand-holding) and any portrayal of sexuality is frowned upon (while I would say that there is a time and a place for this). There must be consideration for others, as it wouldn't be right to flaunt something in front of somebody who has a problem with it. For example, just as it wouldn't be kind to get drunk in front of an alcoholic, it's also not beneficial to turn oneself into a scantily clad hottie in front someone who struggles with infidelity.

It all comes down to Biblical interpretation and personal tolerance. I accept that to be in the gothic culture means to be exposed to sexually assertive people. The weird thing (spotted by my parents – the church leaders – on their visit to ARA) is that while people dress provocatively in the scene, it is far from a meat market. Sexual expression goes hand in hand with an adult approach to control – while it may provide a visual feast, it's generally hands off unless invited. This contrasts sharply with 'normal culture' where sexuality is also flaunted, but with very different results.

The bottom line is that sex and sexuality is a part of who we are, but not the total of who we are. There is a time and a place for everything. As a Christian, if sexuality is hindering spiritual growth, then it needs to be addressed (which is not the same as suppressed!), as all things should become secondary in the context of sustaining a relationship with God. However, we were created as sexual beings and I don't see any problem with expressing that in a non-exploitative manner and in the correct circumstances.

Kolyn: I believe that God created humankind, and that they were initially perfect. Within this creation and perfection was the element of sexuality. Humankind chose a path away from God, and subsequently things that were perfect at first began to become distorted. Over time, cultures developed throughout the world, all tainted by humankind's rejection of God. Inevitably, all sorts of ideas and beliefs came into play. The Greeks believed that there was a separation between the 'spiritual' and the 'secular' – in order to pursue the former, one had to reject the latter. The Hebrew world view saw them as being inextricably intertwined. The Greek perspective had a great influence on early Christianity, which developed within the context of Greek thought. Perhaps this partly explains why Christianity has promoted sexual repression at various times in history. However, Paul, who you mentioned in the question, also used accepted Greek thought to challenge the 'status quo'. When he went to Athens, he got into a discussion regarding a statue to the 'unknown god'. The Greeks were so keen to include all spirituality that they had created this to cover all bases! Paul argued that their 'unknown god' was the one that he had met on the road to Damascus, and who he now followed. In a sense, the statue was a 'fetish' i.e. an object considered to have power or meaning beyond itself. Rather than using this 'fetish' as a negative, he used it as a positive.

The erotic and fetishistic elements within Goth culture can be as complex and confusing as those within Christian culture. Possibly the most common 'fetish' to be found in both Goth and Christianity is the cross, though the meaning or significance may well not be the same. Erotic and fetishistic elements within Goth may well appear more overt, yet – for example – one only has to read 'Song of Songs' in the Bible to realise that eroticism is embraced rather than rejected. It's a celebration of sexuality, and also a way of trying to convey how intense Christ's relationship with his people is. It's quite the opposite of being repressive! God created us as sexual beings and intended the sexual act to be the most intimate connection between a man and a woman – the two becoming one.

11. Some Goths of a pagan or atheist persuasion regard Christianity as a conservative religion,
opposed to their own 'oppositional' and 'transgressive' beliefs. 
Why do you call ARA the 'Alternative to the Alternative?'

Kolyn: Without wanting to be picky, it should be the 'Altærnative to the Alternative' – I'll try to explain why! I started up something called 'The Altær' in September 2000 – it's not the easiest of things to describe, but it's basically an attempt to explore creativity, individuality and spirituality. It's my full-time occupation and I've done all sorts of weird and wonderful things over the years. These have included running workshops, creating installations, making canvases, developing websites, producing digital art, leading retreats, and perhaps most of all connecting with people and building relationships. It's within this context that ARA was born. The name 'The Altær' came about as a combination of the words 'altar', referring to a sacred place, and 'alter', referring to the idea of transformation. Therefore describing ARA as the 'Altærnative to the Alternative' is an attempt to convey the idea that it is something more than – or different to – other 'alternative' clubs or ventures.

Any culture can potentially have 'conservative' elements to it – i.e. ideas/beliefs/rituals/activities that have become accepted as the status quo – even if that culture had originally set itself up as a reaction to the perceived 'conservative' mainstream. It could be argued that ARA is 'oppositional' and 'transgressive' (i.e. meaning 'crossing boundaries') to the 'conservative' Goth culture by openly identifying itself as something that is based on Christianity, which I would suggest is a faith that is not generally incorporated or accepted by Goth culture as a whole.

Matt: Goth culture is generally seen as an 'alternative' culture or lifestyle. It's a tag that forms the dividing line between the normal and the abnormal (or between chintz and PVC). Those of us running ARA consider ourselves alternative in line with this cultural division. However, within the Goth culture, ARA is not normal. I don't know of any other events for Goths in a church and run by Christians. For this reason, we are the alternative to the 'alternative'. In addition to which, we represent a different (or alternative) way of living within the culture, through our faith.

Regarding Christianity as a conservative religion, I hope that we prove that doesn't have to be the case. It should be vibrant and expressive, tolerant of others while being steadfast in its beliefs. It's possible to have fun and a full life without being transgressive (i.e. meaning 'sinful').

12. How do you see ARA's future development?

Matt: We have already achieved a significant amount of what we set out to do, so are happy to maintain the status quo, whilst aiming to increase the numbers. There is a section upstairs, overlooking the main space, which we used successfully on New Years Eve. It would be nice to see the building full with this area also in use (would mean around 120 people).

However, we also have plans to try other things – a dedicated metal night is among these. We have discussed having live bands (although the space isn't conducive to this, so would require some creative thinking) and more live elements, as it's been a while since we've had poetry readings or done anything like the New Years Eve fashion show.

Finally, we have considered whether ARA would work in a different location. So, we would like to take ARA 'on the road', doing special events in other cities or even translating it into an outdoor daytime event for the 'mini-moshers' that hang out between Manchester's Triangle and Urbis. Last, but not least, our first foray outside of Sacred Trinity will be on August Bank Holiday weekend, where we will be at Greenbelt, hosting an 'alternative worship service' at midnight on Saturday. Plenty to keep us busy!

Kolyn: 'Goth church' – will a more formalised expression of church that's relevant to Goth culture come out of ARA?

'Youth ARA' – some interest has been expressed in a version of ARA for possibly 13-17 year olds.

'Goth art group' – several people involved in the arts who have met through ARA have come together with a view to potentially forming a collective.


13. What drew you to 'become' Goth in the first place?

Matt: For me, questions 13 and 14 are linked. I was born in 1975, so the 80s largely passed me by. Although I do remember some key musical, such as Prince Charming, Cars, Toya Wilcox's strange looks, Vienna, etc. I'm having fun rediscovering some of these, searching for the gems to play at ARA. Also, while at school, I was introduced to Fantasy Roleplay – something I rediscovered at University (no surprise there).

My true introduction to anything close to Goth was through University friends bringing me enlightenment on the world of metal (the classics of Iron Maiden and Metallica et al). Being away from home and of a certain age, I had the freedom to explore the 'dark side'. I love films, so when Brandon Lee played The Crow, Gary Oldman played Dracula and Tom Cruise played Lestat, I was hooked on the aesthetic of dark movies and vampirism. This led me to read Bram Stokers' original novel and Edgar Allen Poe, as well as hunt out more gothic/horror films, old and new. Add to this The Sandman comic series (Neil Gaiman is a genius – get ANYTHING by him!) and a raft of fantasy epic novels from the likes of Robert Jordan, George R R Martin, Robin Hobb, etc. My taste for dark stories, fantasy and gothic was developing nicely.

Finally, with the birth of ARA, I had an opportunity to rediscover old Goth music (Sisters, Mission, FOTN, Siouxsie, Cure, etc.) and new (Killing Miranda, HIM, Deine Lakaien, Fantomas, etc.), although metal is still my focus. In all honesty though, my main Gothic influences are with fashion (e.g. Alexander McQueen and the fashions found in Goth-clubs), film (lately, the excellent Frank Millers' Sin City), books and architecture.

Kolyn: I guess my first introduction came through Adam and the Ants. I was about 12 when I first came across them and not only got into their music that was in the charts, but also their earlier work. This brought me into contact with such things as punk, fetishism and dark imagery. And then, of course, their later work drew a great deal from Romaticism. It felt like a right of passage when I shyly went into Aflecks Palace for the first time and bought myself my first pair of bondage trousers, from my paper-round money!

I can also remember standing at a bus stop in my middle-class, suburban hometown to travel into Manchester in full Adam Ant garb, including make-up! Though not strictly Goth, it paved the way for me to feel at home in things non-mainstream. My first officially Goth moment was probably being played Bella Lugosi's Dead by a school friend whilst they dyed my hair with Cochineal – another significant event for me.

I was fortunate enough to grow up at a time when the likes of the Sisters of Mercy, The Cult, The Cure, etc. were at their best and I naturally fell into the Goth/Alternative scene such as it was in Manchester at that time. The music and imagery just seems to make far more sense to me than the usual chart-topping stuff – maybe I'm just naturally morbid!


14. Are there any Gothic novels, poems or films that have been particularly influential on you?

Kolyn: It's a peculiar irony that despite having an A-level in English Literature, I've never really liked reading. So, although I like the style and flavour of gothic novels and poems, I can't claim to have been directly influenced by any specifically. It's more the case that their general influence on culture has affected me.

As for films, the one that stands out to me by far is The Crow. I first saw it at a time of great turmoil in my life and it seemed to powerfully resonate with things that were going on for me – injustice, pain, revenge, love. The whole thing surrounding the film, in terms of Brandon's death, seemed to drive it home all the more. "Buildings burn, people die, but real love lasts forever" is a phrase that will stay with me forever.